muflax65ngodyewp.onion/drafts/antinatalism.mkd

---
title: Antinatalism FAQ
date: 2011-11-16
techne: :incomplete
episteme: :believed
---

> If only I could show you the places I have seen, you might understand the
> things I say. I have been to the Desolate Lands, wandered by those souls who
> still see the lands of the living but wear the cloak of the dead. Blind to
> their own ends, they cry, passing through one another like shadows in the
> dying light of day. I have travelled to where souls rot in torment, pierced
> with the jagged shards of life and vision, clinging to memory - regrets of
> the flesh. I saw that this prison was of their own making, and that the key
> was in unknowing, in release... and still, I travelled on.
>
> And finally, I came to the place where souls go to die. Where the mirrored and
> worn spirits fall into an endless sea of grey, mirrored glass, and I lowered
> myself within, and lay there among them, and I almost did not return.
>
> And do you know what I found there? There, among the silent and battered
> shells of the innumerable? Peace. Enlightenment. Truth. Only then did I realize
> that this place, this "Life", is an abomination, a horrible distortion of the
> natural order. This *"Life"*, who mothered Pain, and Fear, and Envy... these
> twisted children who exist only because we are here to feed them, to nourish
> them. This *"Life"*, this *afterthought* - a disturbance, a mere ripple in that
> great, dead sea, not even the cause, but merely an effect, sending these souls
> upwards, screaming for release from the day they are torn from their waters!
> The effect of what?!
>
> I do not know. Nor do I care.
>
> Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them
> from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel? Pain. Pain,
> when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they
> had escaped. Pain - for having to live. There will be no more pain. There
> will be no more chaos.
>
> -- [Kerghan][] ([video][Kerghan Speech])

# Why You Got Screwed

Why you have been harmed by coming into existence and nothing you can do will
make up for it.

Range of Positions
==================

## Pronatalism

It is never wrong to bring someone into existence.

## Minor Antinatalism

There are some beings who are worse off, but on average, it works out. This
seems like the majority view.

## Major Antinatalism

Some beings are better off alive, but on average, the harm dominates. So far,
this is for example the position of many transhumanists, who think that humanity
has a possible good future, but so far has mostly suffered. It is not too
unusual for people to hold off on having children because the world is too
horrible right now.

## Categorical Antinatalism

It is always wrong to bring someone into existence. *Every* being is worse off
alive. Even [Manabi][].

Arguments for Antinatalism
==========================

## Escape from Kaldor Hicks

## The Asymmetry

## What about future versions of yourself?

Self, person-moments. Should you kill yourself right now?


Arguments against Antinatalism
==============================

## Your suffering is a First World Problem.

An anonymous commenter on [The View from Hell][] provides an example of this
common argument:

> I think your blog's title is a total misnomer: if you're still able
> (emotionally, physically and financially) to enjoy drugs, sex, running and
> talking about philosophy as you yourself claim you clearly haven't got the
> slightest notion of what hell consists of.

In other words, if there are many people who are much worse off than you, you
can't claim to suffer.

I find that a very strange argument. If even privileged people suffer greatly,
isn't that an argument *for* antinatalism, namely that even greatly improved
average circumstances don't fix suffering? Shouldn't we therefore conclude that
many more people suffer than we typically think?

What the arguments seems to be doing is to critize people for requesting help.
Basically, if someone else needs help much more than you, you shouldn't be
bringing your pain to our attention. You're just wasting resources that way.
That's not a bad point, but it is not an argument against preventing births. If
less people are made, less will suffer and we can take better care of the rest.

Practical Implications
======================

Is this just a contrarian position? Are you merely signalling how deep and
unconventional you are? After all, even professional ethicists aren't more
ethical on average[^ethicistfail].

[^ethicistfail]: See [Schwitzgebel's various studies][Schwitzgebel Ethics].

## Moral Imperative

Comparison to Vampire RPG. In it, you are a recently turned vampire who has to
feed on the living to survive. Your constant hunger for blood makes it likely
that you will one day lose control and kill whoever you're feeding off. You must
exploit a large number of humans merely to survive. You know that this is wrong,
yet your own need to survive makes you do it anyway. You could do the right
thing anytime and just step out into the sun tomorrow. Yet you don't. No matter
what you tell yourself, you are evil.[^social]

[^social]: The analogy to our economy, social system and all of
    industrialization is too obvious to ignore.


Religious Analogies
===================

This is not a completely serious section. It doesn't provide actual arguments,
really. Just because some religion or old ascetic supported something like
antinatalism, doesn't mean it's right. But I still find it interesting how
*common* the position actually is. There is obvious [memetic][meme] pressure to
remove antinatalism from any religion, but it still survives for some reason.

## Gnosticism

Even Jesus was an Antinatalist.

A minor remark: antinatalism also provides a solution to Anselm's ontological
argument, like so:

1. God is the greatest possible being. (Definition)
2. It is best to not exist. (Antinatalism)
3. Therefore, God does not exist.

## Shakers

How not to do it.

## Buddhism

[Manabi]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gakuen_Utopia_Manabi_Straight!
[Schwitzgebel Ethics]: http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2007/04/moral-behavior-of-ethics-professors.html
[Kerghan]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum
[Kerghan Video]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkBrIrQikWY
[The View from Hell]: http://theviewfromhell.blogspot.com